How This Dynamic Duo Makes Indie Films Look Big on a Budget

The world of indie film is constantly changing, and it can be hard to stay on top of the best practices and best ways to budget.

That's why I was so excited to sit down and chat with Nick Psinakis & Kevin Ignatius of Four Eighteen Films, an independent creative team that writes, acts, directs, and scores film, television, and music videos.

Their production company is committed to conceptualizing and developing low-cost, high-quality, independently produced films.

Let's dive into our interview.

NO FILM SCHOOL: Can you walk us through your collaborative process as a writer/director duo?

Nick Psinakis: Kevin and I don’t really know much else to be honest and I think we complement each other well. Besides being great friends, we have always written together. It obviously always starts with an idea, but more so for us, a group of characters. I think we are definitely writers who find the way into the story through the characters. During the writing process, we will switch off scenes or if one of us has a real grasp on a particular idea or character, we will let that person go with it. Then once we have all the scenes written and our first draft or vomit draft as we like to call it, we will each take turns editing and working on the script in its entirety alone. We also have a good understanding about never being too precious with ideas, no ego, we just want what is best for the story. Because we are such good friends, we have no problem talking openly and candidly. We can be quite self-deprecating and often find ourselves saying “How does it feel?” “Does this suck?.” If it doesn’t feel right, then it probably has to go.

After pitching countless projects as writers over the years, directing together seemed like a logical next step. It also helps soften the load when working with such tight budgets and minimal crew. We knew we didn’t want to wait around so we started making our own shorts, sketches, and music videos and then eventually made the jump to features. As far as directing duties on set, we try to be available as a unit as much as possible or not physically separate too much. We want to create a unified, clear vision. For instance, we will only send one of us over to the actors to deliver a note. We found this can help the actors not feel overwhelmed or intimidated having two people rattling off multiple ideas all at once. After we yell cut, we look to one another and softly discuss the take and if one of us has something to say, that person will go over from the monitor. We try to avoid yelling out directions and prefer a more intimate set.

Corin Clay and Michael Thyer in 'Cheat' (2023)via Four Eighteen Films

We also split up post-production duties. I handle editing while Kevin composes the music and original score. It really makes our time on set efficient. If something isn’t working in a musical sequence for instance, Kevin can speak to it on the spot. Same goes for myself with the edit – we know what we need and don’t need in that moment. Working this way obviously has its advantages by keeping costs down but also helps to maintain our creative vision. We truly see the film through from the earliest conception of an idea to its release.

NFS: How did your experiences on previous projects like The Long Dark Trail and Hook Man prepare you for Cheat?

Kevin Ignatius: I think both of those films were so valuable to us in learning how to work within such a micro-budget – Hook Man was a short film we did for a couple grand, TLDT for twenty grand – and so it was very much how do we tell this story in a visually thoughtful way on a shoestring budget. Hook Man was shot entirely handheld which brought a sense of urgency to the film and allowed us to be flexible within each location and be efficient in regards to the shooting schedule. Same for TLDT. Every film Nick and I set out to make, we tend to follow and apply the same formula from script to pre-production, production to post. TLDT was Nick and I really finding our visual aesthetic that we have continued to build upon which is this sort of 70s vibe. Cheat was more of our foray into having a bigger cast and crew but we were still able to execute that more vintage feel visually in telling a modern-day story. Since day one of collaborating some twenty years ago, Nick has always handled the editing and as a musician, I’ve always done the score and sound design. So that really makes the process fun when you have those skills honed and we can apply them to each film. And it keeps that ever-looming budget down which is a huge plus.

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NFS: What inspired the concept of Cheat and how did you decide to approach the moral dilemmas in the storyline?

NP: I’m not sure if it was one specific thing that inspired the concept directly but we knew we wanted to find a universal theme. One that we thought was not only interesting but something people could relate to. I think the thing that really interested us was this grey area when it comes to defining relationships. Labels can dictate how people behave and tend to guide our moral compass; married, single, divorced, open relationships, etc. But what happens when it's not so simple? What if we put two goodhearted people in a very complex situation where there is no easy answer? Can we find empathy in the decisions they make without judgment? We wanted to create a real moral dilemma for the characters but also for the audience. Something that most people, if placed in the same situation, would feel the same tension and anxiety our characters are facing in an attempt to make the right decision and move forward. Hopefully, it provokes some thought while also being entertaining.

NFS: How did you find and work with Corin Clay and Michael Thyer to bring Maeve and Charlie to life?

KI: We went through an online casting process to cast Corin. Nick and I went through quite a bit of audition tapes and we kept coming back to Corin’s read where she presented Maeve with such honesty, embracing her innocence as a new student to the small college community and also struggling to keep that innocence throughout the psychosis of the film so to speak. With “Mick” Thyer, we already knew he was going to play Charlie – Mick has been a longtime collaborator on projects with us for over a decade and is a veracious talent on both screen and stage. So Nick and I will usually have that same thought when we’re writing a script –“Mick will be great for this role.” Mick gave Charlie an earnest yet flawed sensibility and that worked so well throughout the trajectory of the film. With the film being shot in just 12 days, there wasn’t a lot of prep time for Corin and Mick to find a good dynamic and we were fortunate enough that they certainly found it within a day of rehearsing together. Nick and I tend to keep takes to a minimum so Mick and Corin being able to find that connection from the get-go was hugely valuable to the film.

NP: Just to add to that, due to the extremely short shooting schedule and limited prep time, we decided to shoot as much of the film in chronological order as possible. Since in the storyline Maeve and Charlie are meeting and getting to know one another for the first time and in a lot of ways Corin and Mick were also just getting to know each other for the first time, we thought embracing that could actually be a benefit and not an obstacle, creating some authentic moments between the two on screen.

Corin Clay, Michael Thyer, and Danielle Grotsky in 'Cheat' (2023)via Four Eighteen Films

NFS: The use of vintage lenses in Cheat creates a specific visual feel. Can you share how these technical choices contribute to the storytelling?

NP: Well first off, we have a really great DP in Connor Smyers, so we started by having a lot of conversations and showing him tons of images for mood and tone. Being 80s babies, I think we were searching for that feeling we got from the films we grew up watching. Whether it's conscious or unconscious, visuals evoke an emotional response and we often don’t know why but it makes you feel a certain way. We wanted to capture the texture and grit that some of those films had and their influence on us. At its core, Cheat is a psychological thriller so the visuals aid in helping the audience feel uneasy or uncertain which is an important element to the storytelling. We also didn’t want to put a particular time period stamp on it. Hopefully, that added to the mystique and made the film feel a bit timeless.

The natural starting point from a technical aspect was to try to get lenses that were made or used in the 70s and 80s. We decided on Lomo Anamorphic Square fronts and a Cooke Varotal Zoom. Obviously, John Carpenter’s Halloween was a huge influence. We incorporated long Steadicam shots and tried to build tension slowly through camera movements and wide framing.

NFS: What do you see as the biggest opportunities and challenges for independent filmmakers today?

KI: There is quite a saturation in the market with each platform presenting such a vast amount of films to viewers and it can really make it easy for indie films to get lost in the mix. And with so many levels of what the industry dubs as “indie” with sizable budgets, where does a film like Cheat that cost $65K to make get a fighting chance to be seen? It’s certainly been a huge change in the landscape and indie filmmakers have a glimmer of hope that the tides may change and we can get glimpses back to the era where indie was getting that chance to be recognized. And maybe that is coming back. The films are certainly out there and are being produced; they just need a little light to shine on them. All that being said, Nick and I will continue to make our films and release them, as we can’t imagine a world where we weren’t telling our stories onscreen. Maybe we’re masochists. I dunno.

April Clark in 'Cheat' (2023)via Four Eighteen Films

NP: I’m sure it’s been said several times but it really has never been more affordable to make a high-quality film but the market is so saturated like Kev said that it’s very hard to get people to actually see it or even know that it exists. Festivals used to be the one place that real indie films could get discovered but it seems like that's not the case anymore. You're competing with studios at a fraction of the budget, let alone marketing spend. The question remains, what’s going to fill the void? What will be the new platform for indie films to be discovered? The positive side is we are seeing more and more filmmakers have success skipping the festival tour altogether and going directly to the audience with innovative forms of distribution that can have better revenue splits for the filmmaker. However, it can be an insane amount of work for small teams to tackle.

NFS: What’s next for Four Eighteen Films? Are there any upcoming projects or genres you’re eager to explore?

NP: Well Cheat comes out January 24th, 2025 on Apple TV, so we have certainly had our hands full preparing and promoting the release. We had theatrical showings leading up to it in Pennsylvania, Cape Cod, New Jersey, and Los Angeles. But we are also currently wrapping up post-production on our latest feature titled Valley View Motel, where Kevin and I also star.

For this film, we intentionally wrote it in a way where our characters are never really in the same scene together to ensure that one of us could always be behind the camera. The story takes place over the course of one day to help manage continuity on a lower budget and minimal crew. For this film, we really threw caution to the wind and said let’s just make something fun that we really want to see in a movie today that's not being made. It’s probably our most ambitious film to date. The story is based in 1970s Northwest Pennsylvania and follows two getaway drivers on the run from a hired hitman after a bank heist goes wrong. We really tried to pull inspiration from some of our favorite films and filmmakers such as The Coen Brothers, Tarantino, and the late great David Lynch. Hopefully, audiences enjoy the very bizarre but fun ride we take them on.

April Clark and Will Bunk in 'Cheat' (2023)via Four Eighteen Films